Hearing Loss LIVE! Talks Shari Eberts and Gael Hannan

Adapting to hearing loss can be overwhelming no matter how you got here--suddenly or progressively. Hearing Loss LIVE! wants to help you take control of your hearing loss. Because we know that when you do, you will live more fully with fewer limits. 

Above is our lived motto here at Hearing Loss LIVE! And when you come across folks with the same desire to help folks understand hearing loss world, well you unite to get the work out about how important it is to learn all you can about the world of hearing loss.

Shari Eberts and Gael Hannon have written great mannual: Hear & Beyond Live Skillfully with Hearing Loss. We invited them to our podcast to talk about what inspired them to write it. And all during a pandemic!

Check out their book today at: www.HearandBeyond.com. 

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Transcript

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Hearing Loss LIVE! talks with Shari Eberts and Gael Hannon on their book Hear and Beyond Live Skillfully with Hearing Loss

Julia: 0:09

Hi! Welcome to Hearing Loss LIVE! It's summertime and we're going to start June off with one of our podcast with two of our favorite ladies. Shari Ebert's and Gael Hannon have collaborated on a book called Hear and Beyond, Live Skillfully with Hearing Loss. I said it, I said it, didn't even stumble. We have invited them to talk to you about their newest adventure with this book. What prompted it ladies? How was writing together? Give us some background on on how this all came apart or came apart came up-- Yeah, you know what I'm trying to say?(background) Tell us about the book.

Gael: 0:55

I'm gonna let Shari start off because she's younger than me.

Shari: 1:03

(laughing) I thought it was age before beauty, but you know, whatever, whatever works. But thank you guys, for having us on the podcast. It's really fun to be able to chat with you about the book. And so the book came about, about two years ago, really. I got an email, was sort of the beginning of the pandemic, I got an email from Gael, who I had always known and admired. But you know, we didn't know each other that that well that I was getting emails from her all the time. And I got an email from Gael, saying, "Hey, Shari, you know, you want to talk about a project that we could work on together?" And I was like, "Sure, what what did you have in mind?" She's like,"a book." So I stupidly say,"about what?" Because what else could it possibly be about? She writes back. "Ah, hearing loss?" I was like "Oh, okay, I'm in." and was really, really excited about it. And we talked a lot about, you know, what we wanted the book to be. And a lot of hearing loss books are memoirs. Which are also fabulous, because the the stories of hearing loss are so important to share with one another. But we wanted to do something a little bit different. We wanted to make, you know, we didn't know what to call it, is it a handbook? Is it a survival guide, but we wanted it to be a lay out, a framework for living well with hearing loss, and a book that would really encourage people to take charge of their hearing loss lives. And so that was the goal. And we we feel like we were able to achieve that. So it's very chocked full of all the tips and the tricks that we have learned over the years. And also, you know, trips, tips and tricks that other people with hearing loss have learned over the years. It's backed by hearing science, it's based in person centered care. So we really tried to make it sort of chocked full of information, but also share our stories throughout. So it's not a you know, a dry read, right? It's we share sort of how we came to these conclusions, how we learned these skills. And some of the stories are, you know, okay, go us and some of them are like, Oh, God, this is when it really didn't go well. And we are really here with you on this journey of hearing loss, sharing the ups and the downs on our way to skillful living.

Gael: 3:31

You know, it was it was interesting that I was one of those people who wrote a memoir, in my first book called, The Way I Hear it. A Life with Hearing Loss. I have to be careful because I sometimes transpose bits of one title onto another. But the first one was definitely called, The Way I Hear It. And I'm very proud of that book. I love that book. I still refer to it. But I felt, as Shari mentioned, that even though I talked about all the strategies almost in a different way, what's in this book, I, it's- even if I'm not specific about it in my first book, I allude to it, but there was a need for a strategies book. When I first got involved in the hearing loss field, 25 years ago, the only books then were kind of, I wouldn't call them strategies, but this is what hearing loss is, this is what a cochlea is and this is what you have to be careful that you don't get isolated and depressed and really uplifting stuff like that. That didn't really give you much to go forward, if you could find that book. There were a couple of them. And so with a lot of memoirs, it was wonderful, but I wanted to-- we needed the strategies. We needed to get that, because there's so much focus on hearing aids and not enough on the other thing things that are really, that we know, are important. Shari had said to me, you know, at a conference, "I'd like to write a book someday." And I remember saying, I regret it, "oh, no, you don't want to write a book. It's so much work," and blah, blah, blah, and maybe partly deep down, because I admired Shari's writing and her approach, and thought, well, hmm, I don't want her to get to it before I get to it.(laughing) That's why I reached out to Shari. I want to talk briefly about the process, or process, as you say, in the US, I'm Canadian process. The two of us had been -- I've been advocate for 25 years. Shari, not quite as long but a while we're both writers and speaking. And so, okay, we're gonna write this book about a strategies book. You know, not like we were circling each other, but we had to find our groove, for lack of a better word. And it took a little bit of while. We were very respectful. And keep in mind, we wrote the entire thing during the pandemic. We started in May of 2020. And it wasn't until the end of March, this past March that we saw each other for the first time in three or four years, it was a very joyous reunion. But we were kind of trying to find our vibe. And then all of a sudden, we realized how much we were enjoying it. And this, this creative process that we went through. And I think that even if the book weren't successful, even if it didn't reach some of the goals that we wanted for it, which we expect it will, but the goal of writing together a book that we're proud of, just between Shari and me, we've met that goal. And it's been a really, it's been amazing journey on that so far.

Shari: 6:58

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's interesting, because you take two very fiercely independent writers, and we had to learn how to work together. And you know, now what I think is so great about the book is we read passages, and we can't really remember who wrote that one. And we went through and edited it so many times, that it really found sort of this joint voice. And that was really what we were going for. Because we both in our different journeys had found our way to a lot of the same skills and tips and tricks, but from like a slightly different angle. And so talking it out between us and really kind of write it in the clearest way possible, we hope is going to benefit the reader, right? So it will be easier. I remember, there was one point that it was, it was really super fun that we were in one of the final drafts. And we decided let's just read it out loud to each other. Because that's the way to really hear it, right. And that's the way to really understand how is a person who's not so close to it, right? Because basically, we have like the whole thing memorized by the time you get to the end of it. And we would, you know, read sections to each other. And sometimes we'd be like, Yeah, we nailed it. And sometimes we'd be like, Oh, okay, we got to really fix that piece a little bit. And so it was just, you know, such a fun process. And I feel like I grew a lot as a writer through this process definitely learned a lot about how to be clearer. How to make sure that you know, you're sharing ideas and tips and tricks, but you don't want to like be shaking your finger at someone, right? You want to invite them into that process with you. And so that was something I think we both came to together as we as we work together. It was it was really a ton of fun.

Gael: 8:53

Yeah, you know, it's so with with you ladies and Hearing Loss LIVE! lived with your hearing loss for a long time, and probably had come to many of the same strategies and conclusions. But I never talked to someone about hearing loss without learning something different, a different perspective. And what one of our goals for the book is it took us a long time to get where we are now. Decades. And we had to do it on our own. I'm 68. And back in the day, this stuff wasn't available. Resources weren't available to me as a child or a young adult with hearing loss and I had to find it on my way. What we want is to shorten that part of the journey for people reading the book, people new to hearing loss, even people with mild hearing loss. You know, some of the people might say, Well, I just don't-- some people literally get a hearing aid and don't "Oh, everything's tickety boo." But even those people, many people when they get a hearing aid and they find, "it still doesn't solve the problems that I want." And we just want to shorten that journey or make it help people find a way to make that journey smoother, providing information that they're not going to get from the manufacturers, or even the hearing care professionals as yet. Get a hearing aid and life will just be tickety boo people. We're saying, life with a hearing aid can be great. And here's what will help you make it even better. So and that's that was our goal, help people find their way and not feel so alone? Yes, Julia?

Julia: 10:40

Thank you, Gael. So I really feel that meshes so well with Hearing Loss LIVE!, because that's one of the things all of us have, have witnessed over the years. I as a family member, Michele, and Chelle with hearing loss. It's that gap, right? That you just you until you find we call it the tribe. So it's kind of a loaded question. And it may not have an answer or not. Because this is something we kick around a lot, too, I think. How do we reach those people who need to know before they know they need to know? Does that make sense? How do we-- how do we come together and find that, you know, I don't know if it's an audiologist office who's willing to say, "yes, my patient needs a hearing aid. But here's a brochure if you feel you ever need more help," that gets us and continues to grow that. How do we get? I don't know, how do we get to that first step where they just really don't understand. You know, even if you don't want to seek hearing aids, yet, there's support groups to help you that may have some ideas, or you can talk through things to kind of come up with ideas. How do we find that pool of people? How do we make better connections, I think is what I'm trying to get out for them just just food for thought I don't care who answers I just, I don't even know that I have an answer. I'm still struggling with that one. Because it's so important to me, I think.

Shari: 12:26

Yeah, I mean, it is so important. And I think, you know, we've spent a lot of time thinking about that, right? Because, you know, we don't want to be just preaching to the converted, right? We want to really be bringing new people in and easing their journey. And I don't know that we really have the perfect answer. But I think one way I think about it is to try and make ourselves as findable as possible, if that's a word, right? Because--

Gael: 12:55

It is now. It is now a word.

Shari: 12:57

Okay good! And it-- because it's not like these people are going to necessarily join HLAA or join, you know, a different hearing loss group, but they might Google something. Or they might be on social media and type into Facebook "hearing loss." And so just to try and be findable so that when these people are just even asking a little bit of a question or expressing any little interest, that they'll find our book, they'll find hearing loss groups, they'll find other people with hearing loss, and just start that connection. And you know, maybe it's baby steps, right? I mean, maybe it's they just watch. They come into a hearing loss group and they watch. Maybe they find a podcast and they say, "oh, you know what, I'm going to watch this and see if I can learn something about it." And just getting them to feel more and more comfortable just with the idea of hearing loss and reaching out. And then over time, you know, maybe they buy a book about hearing loss, maybe they come to a live meeting, or a convention. So I don't know if that really answers your question. But that's how I think about it is to make ourselves as findable as possible. So when anyone sticks a little toe in the water, they're gonna find us and we can help them, you know, jump right in.

Gael: 14:23

You know, I've got a couple of thoughts on that as well. One is one of the things that Shari and I are doing now that the book has been published, it's been, you know, in early May. We are working and reaching out in a big way to the industry. So the retailers because we feel that this is an important part of their client centered care offering of being a good hearing care professionals. Living up to the professional standards that they committed to when they became a hearing care professional. And we are also reaching out to the manufacturers and we're having conversations with them. So we're very excited about that. But the other thing too, is that I was, I've been a member of HLAA, The Hearing Loss Association of America, as well as Canadian Hard of Hearing Association. And that was my first entree into living better with hearing loss reaching out to other people. But so many of the hearing loss groups, they get frustrated because the members, they're not getting new members. And early on, I realized, and this is my opinion, only by the way, is that not everyone wants to join groups. That's somewhat of a different era. That people our age, and in my children's age, they're not club joiners. That's not what they do. It's more you're out into the universe, or you're on the internet. So we have to appreciate that. And that's why the virtual meetings, virtual accessibility is really, really important. The downside to that is that all of us here belong to a number of different Facebook, hearing loss related books, and some of them are a little toxic. Some of them-- now the group's themselves are fine, but you get people on and the advice that gets shared, some of it is questionable. But so much of it is good. And it's up to an individual to wade through that. But if you can go online, and feel, Oh, at least I found a place or another person has this same issue as me. And so we tried to promote the book through, you know, the, the various groups. And so there's lots of different ways. So but I totally get your question, Julia, how do we get them to come to us? How can we help them? And I think we're making progress.

Chelle: 16:54

This is Chelle. And I hope my internet holds up. So one of the things I was thinking about when Shari was talking was that patient centered care, and how important it is. Because our hearing care professionals are the first ones we see. And I'll have to be honest, I spent 17 years with hearing aids and I did not know their limits. And because I didn't know their limits, I thought something was wrong with me. And when I found out what the limits were, I was really angry for a couple of years. Because I could have gotten around those obstacles if they had been upfront with me about that. And since I've learned all of the strategies and life skills that go with hearing loss, I've been much better at it. So I think you know, I'm really excited about patient centered care.

Gael: 17:54

What a great comment, Chelle, that is so true. And unfortunately, we have to go through that. It is unfortunate that we've had to go through that to find our place now. And again, going back, that's what we hope that someone who you know, picks up this book, and whether they read it on an E-book or this just get a sense that oh, maybe I'm you know, it's a different way. I got an email yesterday from a reader of our book in Australia. And I know this woman has she she does-- she's done online. She reads books and this sort of thing. So she read her book. And she just said this is this morning. She said, "Wow. Well, I'm, I'm rethinking how I do all this. And I'm about to give it to himself," her husband, "and we are going to kind of change things up around here." So you're -- there's always a point, you can learn new things, but someone has to give you that opportunity. Someone has to tell you, hey, there's a different way. Try this. And that's what Hearing Loss LIVE! is about. That's what we're about. And we take it one by one. Every person who learns and benefits from your podcast and from the book, that's another one who's going to live better with their hearing loss. So.

Shari: 19:21

yeah, absolutely. I mean, I really loved what you said about person centered care, because I think it's so critical. And such an important part of it is setting the right expectations. And, you know, that's what we try and do in the book. We actually go through and say hearing aids will do this for you. Hearing aids will not do this for you. And that's why you need these other strategies. Our a three legged stool of skills that don't wobble, you know, even on bumpy ground in a loud situation. And so that's what we're really trying to do. Do I almost feel like this is like it picks up where person centered care leaves off? You know, it's sort of like, okay, this is as far as maybe your hearing care professional can get you. And the rest is going to come from the people who have that lived experience. And some of the professionals do have that. But a lot of times hearing it, you know, straight from the horse's mouth. Straight from someone who has lived that and felt, you know, that moment of oh, my God, you know, am I just failing at having hearing aids? Am I just doing this all wrong. And the fact is that we're all doing it wrong, some of the time, that's just part of the journey, and to help people understand that, you know, there is a path forward and you can live well, most of the time. It's still not going to be perfect, but you can do it. And so that's what we're really hoping people are gonna walk away with, when they read this book is feeling empowered, that they can, you know, they can really do it, they can.

Gael: 21:00

But you know, Shari, I agree with you, but just one minor point. The book, to me isn't where patient centered care leads off, it's part of it. So the the audiologist or the hearing instrument specialist says, "Okay, I'm tech person," we'd like them to do more tech stuff than just hearing aids, but "I'm your tech person. And here, this is a you need to know this information. And I can't, I don't have hearing loss," says the audiologist. "But these people do, and they understand. And here's the other stuff." So it's, you know, I recently described it as a bivalve like a, you know, a clam. So this is the audiologist and hearing instrument specialist, all they do. And this is what we do, as advocates, people with hearing loss and things that we can share, and you get them working together and inside is better communication. And one of the thrusts of our book that Shari and I both came to realize that at some point, our goal shifted. And it wasn't so much about hearing better, because some of us here don't hear very well. I will never hear as well as my hearing husband or my hearing son, but I can communicate better. And when I when I did, when I get rid of that pressure as Chelle you were saying, my trying to make my hearing aids do all the work, well, they're not going to. They can't. But this other stuff, will help me communicate better with the people in my life.

Michele: 22:28

I would have loved to have had some patient centered care inall of the years that I've seen audiologist. I'm unique in that hearing aids never really worked for me. I wish I had all of those years back that I went through hearing aid trials. But in my experience, once that was exhausted, and they weren't working, no one knew what to tell me. And you know, I kind of reached a point where I just said, I'm gonna have to teach myself how to live in the world because I wasn't willing to give up my independence. And I think we each one come to that point where we have a huge attitude shift. And we stopped thinking ourselves as being bothersome when we're trying to get what we need to communicate. And that's a huge thing. And I'm still amazed when we talk about self advocacy, we just gave a workshop on self advocacy, people don't realize they have to practice it to do it well. And that's one thing you mentioned in your book, it takes practice. And actually that was my, my way of doing it. I took myself out on field trips and practiced, and I got really good at it. And I appreciate that you mentioned that on your book, because it took so long for all of us to get to a point. You know, we're all kind of out there wandering in the wilderness, not knowing each other. And then when you find online peer support it's life changing. And then you move forward, and you keep going and then-- what we're trying to do here with Hearing Loss LIVE! is the same thing that you two are trying to do. We want to bring people to that moment, much sooner than we found it in our own lives. And I think it's important information to get out there. And you know, I think there are a lot a lot of hard of hearing people who are just really unaware of what's available to them. And you know, just by living our lives skillfully and well, we serve as an example. Because a lot of times people will have a family member and they'll come up and they'll realize that I'm hard of hearing and I'm a lipreader and they want me to help them. And I'm always more than happy to. I mean, the receptionist in my chiropractor's office, interceded for her mother and I gave her information on caption phones and different things. So I think the more people we have living well and living skillfully with hearing loss, the more will spread. And I just appreciate those points that you made in your book so much.

Gael: 25:26

We talked about, Shari mentioned the three legged stool, and I know this was her idea. There's certain things that we would got, "that was her three legged stool." And the mind, this shifting of attitude is a key thing. The other one is technology in all its glory and all of its the things. It's like, this is a candy shop people and we're kids in it. And there's so many wonderful things. And then we spent a lot of time, the other leg of the stool is the interpersonal, non- technical, behavioral things. Such as self advocacy, and we-- but I like what you said about practice, because another thing that, I'm sure Shari wrote this, when we talk about practice, if you're on a bus, turn to someone, let them know you have hearing loss. So it always makes me laugh. I don't talk to strangers on a bus. But you know, I can, I can just get out there, say, "Hi there, I have hearing loss" and whatever. practice it. Practice it in the mirror, get over the shame or the stigma that you've got, if you have it. And I think we all hang on to little bits at times. And to be able to move through that is a big personal win.

Shari: 26:41

Yeah, I mean, I had lots and lots of stigma about my hearing loss.. I watched my father really struggle with his stigma about his hearing loss. And so for me, it was much easier to talk about it with strangers. And so, you know, like Gael says, talk to that person on the bus. Or, you know, go into a clothing store, and the person's just, you know, folding clothes or and not looking at me and I would try out different versions of my speech, you know, hi, you know, I have hearing loss, I'm having trouble hearing you, can you please face me and speak a little bit louder, or whatever I needed them to do. But you know, what words do you use to describe yourself? Right? Oh, I have hearing loss. I wear hearing aids. I'm deaf, you know, like, what, what do you say, so that you feel comfortable with it, and that it's also effective. And it might vary in different situations. Like, I know, sometimes I go to this one yoga class that I really liked the teacher, but his voice is just not a good voice for me, you know, those middle range voices. And I always remind him,"remember, I'm a little bit deaf." And I never really call myself deaf, because that's not sort of how I see myself. But in that situation, I think it's very impactful. And he goes,"Oh, yes. Oh, that's right." So you just have to sort of try it out and see what works and how you know, you feel comfortable doing it. And then I think it's easier to start doing it maybe later with your friends and your family, which seems like the opposite. Right? It seems like you should be able to do it with people who are you're more comfortable with, but that's almost the harder hurdle. You know, at least it was for me and I think that-- Gael; Because there's love involved. There's love involved and they have the power more to hurt you if they don't, if things don't don't-- sorry to interrupt, but it's so important what you're saying about people. I get more upset with a hearing husband than I get with with anyone else at times. Shari and I both-- this what we call ourselves-- Shari and I both agree, we don't care what you call yourself, we do not get tangled up in-- someone calls themselves hearing impaired. Fine. I'm not gonna say, "Oh, well, you know, that's not the right term these days." And/or,"you can't call yourself deaf because you're not really." We don't care. What's way more important than a label is that you let people know what your needs are. And that you're comfortable and there's no shame in doing that. I don't care what you call yourself and I, like Shari, I'm interchangeable, whatever works to get the message across.

Julia: 29:29

--helps to come off mute. Thank you ladies. We are coming up on time. Michele, did you have another question? Did I see Michele's hand go up? No. okay.

Michele: 29:38

I do not.

Julia: 29:39

We are coming up on time. And I want to make sure we tell our viewers where they can get a copy of Here and Beyond --Live skillfully with Hearing Loss. Where can they pick that up?

Shari: 29:54

Excellent. Well, it is available wherever books are sold. You can get it in bookstore, online. And a great way to do it is go to HearandBeyond.com. That's the website for the book. And then it has links to, you know, Amazon or Barnes and Noble or lots of different places. So that's always a great place to start is HearandBeyond.com.

Gael: 30:16

And your library. So we know the libraries, some libraries are ordering it, so someone didn't want to buy it, but they want to read it. That's an option as well. Julie, I just want to just -- you get the name right, pretty well 99% of the time. But if someone asked us what was the hardest part of writing the book (laughing), we would go the name coming up with a name. It took a year. And it was the one thing that Shari and I, you know, we both the name that we ultimately chose is not what either of us were talking about at the beginning. So worked with our publisher on that, but the name, so you're making me think maybe it's a little long Shari, maybe we need to shorten it.

Shari: 31:00

Well, we can just call it Hear and Beyond. That's not you know, that's not too long. Exactly. Yeah. Thank you so much for having us. It's been a joy. We love talking about the book. And we love talking with people like you and we know all of you from online and your work that just a real honor to be on Hearing Loss LIVE! Yes, thank you for all your continued advocacy. And I think if we all advocate for ourselves, and for the community, it just builds upon each other. So it's so great for us all to be together and trying to do that. So thank you.

Julia: 31:39

Thank you for joining us today. Super excited for this one to come out. We want to thank you for enjoying our podcast. As usual. Please remember to subscribe, like and share our YouTube or Buzzsprout. Podcasts. We're an audible version with a transcript is always available. Remember self advocacy is hard, but continue to keep doing it. That's how we move forward and get what we need to have our hearing loss help us anyway we need it. We thank you and go swimming now because it's June. Have a good day. Hear and Beyond Live Skillfully with Hearing Loss can be found at www.HearandBeyond.com and most of your retail bookstores.